From d.mueller at mac-garden.com Fri Jan 18 04:45:52 2008 From: d.mueller at mac-garden.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dennis_M=FCller?=) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:45:52 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode Message-ID: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com> Hi there, i have installed the latest mono and cocoa# release. But now my question is, how can i integrate it into xcode? Im using Mac OSX 10.5.1 and the latest xcode. All the documentation i found was for older xcode releases, and the most dowloadlinks for xcode project templates are down. thanx for the help and greetings from germany, Dennis Mit freundlichen Gr??en - best regards Dennis M?ller d.mueller at mac-garden.com From dru at druware.com Fri Jan 18 09:37:46 2008 From: dru at druware.com (Andrew Satori) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:37:46 -0500 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com> Message-ID: <576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> The short answer is, right now, you can't. With Xcode 3, Apple changed many of the paths and plugins so we have to fix those. I'm already working on new lang and file specs, I'll move to the compiler plugins and others as time permits, I'f you'd like to jump in and help, I'lll be happy to provide whatever assistance I can. Andrew Satori - Owner & Janitor Druware Software Designs Business Solutions for Small Business http://www.druware.com/ On Jan 18, 2008, at 4:45 AM, Dennis M?ller wrote: > Hi there, > > i have installed the latest mono and cocoa# release. But now my > question is, how can i integrate it into xcode? > Im using Mac OSX 10.5.1 and the latest xcode. > > All the documentation i found was for older xcode releases, and the > most dowloadlinks for xcode project templates are down. > thanx for the help and greetings from germany, > Dennis > > > Mit freundlichen Gr??en - best regards > > Dennis M?ller > d.mueller at mac-garden.com > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp From andreas.faerber at web.de Fri Jan 18 10:02:28 2008 From: andreas.faerber at web.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_F=E4rber?=) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:02:28 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com> <576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> Message-ID: Hi Dru, Am 18.01.2008 um 15:37 schrieb Andrew Satori: > I'm already working on new lang and file specs, I'll > move to the compiler plugins and others as time permits, I'f you'd > like to jump in and help, I'lll be happy to provide whatever > assistance I can. I'm working on a complete .xclangspec file for C# (not based on C), will post it on Mono-osx if I have something ready. Maybe we can share it in the Mono repo and start merging the three(?) plugin efforts? Andreas From mh at elitedev.com Fri Jan 18 11:32:59 2008 From: mh at elitedev.com (marc hoffman) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:32:59 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> Message-ID: <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> Andre*'s, I'd love to help out if i can. I've already looked into getting some of this stuff working in Xcode 3 a while back but iirc it failed on the langspec, and i couldn't figure out what part it didn't like anymore :(. If you have anything that works better than what's in SVN now, i'd love to have a look. Out of curiosity: are you baisn gyour work on any official or semi-official documentation that might be out there (i couldn?t find any on ADC), or are you too just doing this by trial-and-error and the few unofficial infos that Google serves up (such as http://maxao.free.fr/xcode-plugin-interface/index.html)? Yours, marc hoffman RemObjects Software The Infrastructure Company http://www.remobjects.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com [mailto:cocoa-sharp- > bounces at lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of Andreas F?rber > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:02 PM > To: Andrew Satori > Cc: cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > Subject: Re: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode > > Hi Dru, > > Am 18.01.2008 um 15:37 schrieb Andrew Satori: > > > I'm already working on new lang and file specs, I'll > > move to the compiler plugins and others as time permits, I'f you'd > > like to jump in and help, I'lll be happy to provide whatever > > assistance I can. > > I'm working on a complete .xclangspec file for C# (not based on C), > will post it on Mono-osx if I have something ready. Maybe we can share > it in the Mono repo and start merging the three(?) plugin efforts? > > Andreas > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp From dru at druware.com Fri Jan 18 11:44:40 2008 From: dru at druware.com (Andrew Satori) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:44:40 -0500 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> Message-ID: The short version is that the old pblangspec files just plain don't work, so I think both of us are working with the new xclangspec format Andrew Satori - Owner & Janitor Druware Software Designs Business Solutions for Small Business http://www.druware.com/ On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:32 AM, marc hoffman wrote: > Andre*'s, > > I'd love to help out if i can. I've already looked into getting some > of this > stuff working in Xcode 3 a while back but iirc it failed on the > langspec, and i > couldn't figure out what part it didn't like anymore :(. If you have > anything > that works better than what's in SVN now, i'd love to have a look. > > Out of curiosity: are you baisn gyour work on any official or semi- > official > documentation that might be out there (i couldn?t find any on ADC), > or are you > too just doing this by trial-and-error and the few unofficial infos > that Google > serves up (such as http://maxao.free.fr/xcode-plugin-interface/index.html)? > > > Yours, > > marc hoffman > > RemObjects Software > The Infrastructure Company > http://www.remobjects.com > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com [mailto:cocoa-sharp- >> bounces at lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of Andreas F?rber >> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:02 PM >> To: Andrew Satori >> Cc: cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com >> Subject: Re: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode >> >> Hi Dru, >> >> Am 18.01.2008 um 15:37 schrieb Andrew Satori: >> >>> I'm already working on new lang and file specs, I'll >>> move to the compiler plugins and others as time permits, I'f you'd >>> like to jump in and help, I'lll be happy to provide whatever >>> assistance I can. >> >> I'm working on a complete .xclangspec file for C# (not based on C), >> will post it on Mono-osx if I have something ready. Maybe we can >> share >> it in the Mono repo and start merging the three(?) plugin efforts? >> >> Andreas >> _______________________________________________ >> Cocoa-sharp mailing list >> Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com >> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > > From David_Hudson at capgroup.com Fri Jan 18 12:02:53 2008 From: David_Hudson at capgroup.com (David_Hudson at capgroup.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:02:53 -0800 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anyone need SVN access to the CSharpXcodePlugin on the Google Code site? If anyone wants to take it over, be my guest. Unfortunately, my old iBook will not run Leopard. Thanks Dave cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com wrote on 01/18/2008 08:44:40 AM: > The short version is that the old pblangspec files just plain don't > work, so I think both of us are working with the new xclangspec format > > > Andrew Satori - Owner & Janitor Druware Software Designs > Business Solutions for Small Business > http://www.druware.com/ > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:32 AM, marc hoffman wrote: > > > Andre*'s, > > > > I'd love to help out if i can. I've already looked into getting some > > of this > > stuff working in Xcode 3 a while back but iirc it failed on the > > langspec, and i > > couldn't figure out what part it didn't like anymore :(. If you have > > anything > > that works better than what's in SVN now, i'd love to have a look. > > > > Out of curiosity: are you baisn gyour work on any official or semi- > > official > > documentation that might be out there (i couldn?t find any on ADC), > > or are you > > too just doing this by trial-and-error and the few unofficial infos > > that Google > > serves up (such as http://maxao.free.fr/xcode-plugin-interface/index.html)? > > > > > > Yours, > > > > marc hoffman > > > > RemObjects Software > > The Infrastructure Company > > http://www.remobjects.com > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com [mailto:cocoa-sharp- > >> bounces at lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of Andreas F?rber > >> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:02 PM > >> To: Andrew Satori > >> Cc: cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > >> Subject: Re: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode > >> > >> Hi Dru, > >> > >> Am 18.01.2008 um 15:37 schrieb Andrew Satori: > >> > >>> I'm already working on new lang and file specs, I'll > >>> move to the compiler plugins and others as time permits, I'f you'd > >>> like to jump in and help, I'lll be happy to provide whatever > >>> assistance I can. > >> > >> I'm working on a complete .xclangspec file for C# (not based on C), > >> will post it on Mono-osx if I have something ready. Maybe we can > >> share > >> it in the Mono repo and start merging the three(?) plugin efforts? > >> > >> Andreas > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Cocoa-sharp mailing list > >> Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > >> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp From andreas.faerber at web.de Fri Jan 18 13:08:49 2008 From: andreas.faerber at web.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_F=E4rber?=) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:08:49 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> Message-ID: <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> Hey, Am 18.01.2008 um 17:32 schrieb marc hoffman: > I'd love to help out if i can. I've already looked into getting some > of this > stuff working in Xcode 3 a while back but iirc it failed on the > langspec, and i > couldn't figure out what part it didn't like anymore :(. If you have > anything > that works better than what's in SVN now, i'd love to have a look. I'm still at the stage that I don't see anything of what I've written in Xcode, no new menu item. > Out of curiosity: are you baisn gyour work on any official or semi- > official > documentation that might be out there (i couldn?t find any on ADC), > or are you > too just doing this by trial-and-error and the few unofficial infos > that Google > serves up (such as http://maxao.free.fr/xcode-plugin-interface/index.html)? I am not aware of any documentation other than Damien's, and that was not even up-to-date for 2.3. Moreover I see his headers for native ObjC code as problematic (they are GPL, thus any code derived from it becomes GPL while Xcode is not GPL; depending on interpretations, this can be regarded as violation) and instead had a BSD-ish plugin based on Cocoa-sharq; the accompanying spec files were integrated with bridged ObjC code, and ObjC is the part we can pretty much dump first when a new version is out... I used a managed framework to inspect the available classes, their methods and then probed all interesting parameters, and in the end some trial-and-error. I'd like to avoid that work for now! So currently I am trying to deploy my draft spec files to /Developer/ Library/Xcode/Specifications but I'm not sure if they are even being picked up there, there are only xctxtmacro files and an xcplugin there. (it would've been handy) There are some files in /Developer/Library/PrivateFrameworks/ DevToolsCore.framework/Resources that look the same as in Xcode 2.4 (pb*spec). XcodeEdit.Framework has differing "xclangspec" files. ASKPlugin uses an xcspec file containing an old-style language definition (referring to a custom native scanner). Looking at the existing local Xcode files is the closest thing to "documentation" I currently have. Regards, Andreas From andreas.faerber at web.de Fri Jan 18 13:54:44 2008 From: andreas.faerber at web.de (=?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Andreas_F=E4rber?=) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:54:44 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> Message-ID: <2EB3D21B-D131-4688-915D-158A19CE6B52@web.de> Am 18.01.2008 um 19:08 schrieb Andreas F?rber: > I'm still at the stage that I don't see anything of what I've written > in Xcode, no new menu item. It turns out for some reason the menu item only appears after I open the first C# file. > So currently I am trying to deploy my draft spec files to /Developer/ > Library/Xcode/Specifications but I'm not sure if they are even being > picked up there They are, once I added a missing semicolon. Syntax errors are actually written to the console, I just have look there. ;) Andreas From etil15 at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 14:24:49 2008 From: etil15 at gmail.com (Manuel de la Pena) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:24:49 +0000 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> Message-ID: Hi guys, Seems that we have some communication problems at cocoa-sharp... (big ones I'd say) We have two different mailing lists : cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com I really don't understand the mailing list situation: As in other project we have a dev and non-dev group, but clearly cocoa should not have a non-dev group. Think about it, we have evolution and evolution-dev. The evolution one is for the evolution users while evolution-dev is for the developers, but in our case we have developers in both sides. Do we really want the non-dev one since cocoa is a library anyway. On top of this we are having discussions about similar things in both and I think things are getting out f hand. On the google one a couple of us have been talking about how to write some proper documentation, I have offer to use my server to held the project (500 gb per moth bandwidth etc.. ) and I don't mind paying that. But we seriously have to sort out the group!!!! I know that there is people that want to help the group and work a lot but we first have to fix all the problems we have and centralize all the info of the project. We have potential coders with the skills but when they see this situation they get scared. We need to discuss a solution... please replay to both mailing lists so everyone reads it until we decide which one to use. Cheers, Manuel PS: For the time being I recommend everyone to read both. PS 2: I've also posted this at the mono lists to get some help from our big brothers at mono, I'm sure they can give us a hand. On 18/01/2008, at 18:08, Andreas F?rber wrote: > Hey, > > Am 18.01.2008 um 17:32 schrieb marc hoffman: > >> I'd love to help out if i can. I've already looked into getting some >> of this >> stuff working in Xcode 3 a while back but iirc it failed on the >> langspec, and i >> couldn't figure out what part it didn't like anymore :(. If you have >> anything >> that works better than what's in SVN now, i'd love to have a look. > > I'm still at the stage that I don't see anything of what I've written > in Xcode, no new menu item. > >> Out of curiosity: are you baisn gyour work on any official or semi- >> official >> documentation that might be out there (i couldn?t find any on ADC), >> or are you >> too just doing this by trial-and-error and the few unofficial infos >> that Google >> serves up (such as http://maxao.free.fr/xcode-plugin-interface/index.html)? > > I am not aware of any documentation other than Damien's, and that was > not even up-to-date for 2.3. Moreover I see his headers for native > ObjC code as problematic (they are GPL, thus any code derived from it > becomes GPL while Xcode is not GPL; depending on interpretations, this > can be regarded as violation) and instead had a BSD-ish plugin based > on Cocoa-sharq; the accompanying spec files were integrated with > bridged ObjC code, and ObjC is the part we can pretty much dump first > when a new version is out... I used a managed framework to inspect the > available classes, their methods and then probed all interesting > parameters, and in the end some trial-and-error. I'd like to avoid > that work for now! > > So currently I am trying to deploy my draft spec files to /Developer/ > Library/Xcode/Specifications but I'm not sure if they are even being > picked up there, there are only xctxtmacro files and an xcplugin > there. (it would've been handy) > > There are some files in /Developer/Library/PrivateFrameworks/ > DevToolsCore.framework/Resources that look the same as in Xcode 2.4 > (pb*spec). XcodeEdit.Framework has differing "xclangspec" files. > ASKPlugin uses an xcspec file containing an old-style language > definition (referring to a custom native scanner). > Looking at the existing local Xcode files is the closest thing to > "documentation" I currently have. > > Regards, > > Andreas > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp From d.mueller at mac-garden.com Fri Jan 18 15:25:37 2008 From: d.mueller at mac-garden.com (=?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Dennis_M=FCller?=) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:25:37 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> Message-ID: <0768CB80-939E-43F7-91FF-C88AD8D944D2@mac-garden.com> Hi there, as someone whos getting fresh into the cocoa# stuff i would recommend to the team to fix all the wrong informations on the Official Mono Homepage. Some links are very old. Everything should link to the google code "group" site. I was looking for information about cocoa#, but it was very difficult to find the correct information. The Google Code sites are very good for organizing things. If we want to make cocoa# more popular (thats what i would love to do ;-) ) we need more and clear information about the project. If there is no integration for leopard xcode, then just mention it on the website for example. The the possible developers/users should see that this project is not dead. My first impression (about 6 months ago) was "oh, nice. but it seems there is no further development on it". All because of the bad sites ;-) sry for my bad english and greetings from germany, Dennis Am 18.01.2008 um 20:24 schrieb Manuel de la Pena: > Hi guys, > > Seems that we have some communication problems at cocoa-sharp... (big > ones I'd say) We have two different mailing lists : > > cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com > > I really don't understand the mailing list situation: > > As in other project we have a dev and non-dev group, but clearly cocoa > should not have a non-dev group. Think about it, we have evolution and > evolution-dev. The evolution one is for the evolution users while > evolution-dev is for the developers, but in our case we have > developers in both sides. Do we really want the non-dev one since > cocoa is a library anyway. On top of this we are having discussions > about similar things in both and I think things are getting out f > hand. > > On the google one a couple of us have been talking about how to write > some proper documentation, I have offer to use my server to held the > project (500 gb per moth bandwidth etc.. ) and I don't mind paying > that. But we seriously have to sort out the group!!!! > > I know that there is people that want to help the group and work a lot > but we first have to fix all the problems we have and centralize all > the info of the project. We have potential coders with the skills but > when they see this situation they get scared. > > We need to discuss a solution... please replay to both mailing lists > so everyone reads it until we decide which one to use. > > Cheers, > > Manuel > > PS: For the time being I recommend everyone to read both. > > PS 2: I've also posted this at the mono lists to get some help from > our big brothers at mono, I'm sure they can give us a hand. > > On 18/01/2008, at 18:08, Andreas F?rber wrote: > >> Hey, >> >> Am 18.01.2008 um 17:32 schrieb marc hoffman: >> >>> I'd love to help out if i can. I've already looked into getting some >>> of this >>> stuff working in Xcode 3 a while back but iirc it failed on the >>> langspec, and i >>> couldn't figure out what part it didn't like anymore :(. If you have >>> anything >>> that works better than what's in SVN now, i'd love to have a look. >> >> I'm still at the stage that I don't see anything of what I've written >> in Xcode, no new menu item. >> >>> Out of curiosity: are you baisn gyour work on any official or semi- >>> official >>> documentation that might be out there (i couldn?t find any on ADC), >>> or are you >>> too just doing this by trial-and-error and the few unofficial infos >>> that Google >>> serves up (such as http://maxao.free.fr/xcode-plugin-interface/index.html)? >> >> I am not aware of any documentation other than Damien's, and that was >> not even up-to-date for 2.3. Moreover I see his headers for native >> ObjC code as problematic (they are GPL, thus any code derived from it >> becomes GPL while Xcode is not GPL; depending on interpretations, >> this >> can be regarded as violation) and instead had a BSD-ish plugin based >> on Cocoa-sharq; the accompanying spec files were integrated with >> bridged ObjC code, and ObjC is the part we can pretty much dump first >> when a new version is out... I used a managed framework to inspect >> the >> available classes, their methods and then probed all interesting >> parameters, and in the end some trial-and-error. I'd like to avoid >> that work for now! >> >> So currently I am trying to deploy my draft spec files to /Developer/ >> Library/Xcode/Specifications but I'm not sure if they are even being >> picked up there, there are only xctxtmacro files and an xcplugin >> there. (it would've been handy) >> >> There are some files in /Developer/Library/PrivateFrameworks/ >> DevToolsCore.framework/Resources that look the same as in Xcode 2.4 >> (pb*spec). XcodeEdit.Framework has differing "xclangspec" files. >> ASKPlugin uses an xcspec file containing an old-style language >> definition (referring to a custom native scanner). >> Looking at the existing local Xcode files is the closest thing to >> "documentation" I currently have. >> >> Regards, >> >> Andreas >> _______________________________________________ >> Cocoa-sharp mailing list >> Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com >> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp Mit freundlichen Gr??en - best regards Dennis M?ller d.mueller at mac-garden.com MacGarden - electronic lifestyle Schlo?berg 19 75175 Pforzheim Tel.: 07231/44 34 108 Fax: 07231/44 34 106 info at mac-garden.com www.mac-garden.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ximian.com/pipermail/cocoa-sharp/attachments/20080118/2925cb52/attachment.html From mh at elitedev.com Fri Jan 18 17:03:24 2008 From: mh at elitedev.com (marc hoffman) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:03:24 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <2EB3D21B-D131-4688-915D-158A19CE6B52@web.de> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <2EB3D21B-D131-4688-915D-158A19CE6B52@web.de> Message-ID: <4791222C.9020603@elitedev.com> Andreas F?rber wrote: > > Am 18.01.2008 um 19:08 schrieb Andreas F?rber: > >> I'm still at the stage that I don't see anything of what I've written >> in Xcode, no new menu item. > > It turns out for some reason the menu item only appears after I open the > first C# file. > >> So currently I am trying to deploy my draft spec files to /Developer/ >> Library/Xcode/Specifications but I'm not sure if they are even being >> picked up there > > They are, once I added a missing semicolon. Syntax errors are actually > written to the console, I just have look there. ;) Yeah. i keep seeing some odd messages myself - i'm not sure if they pertain to my files (none have problems i line 14/15, and changing line to contain some crap i all of them does not change the "Unexpected character / at line 1", so that would indicate they don't?). it'd be great if you could send me your files, so i could have a look. i get my Mac desktop on monday, which means i'll have more motivation to start playing with this, come next week - i hate coding on the laptop ) the errors i see in Console are these; too bad they don't specify the file name. i get them both then opening my plugin project AND when opening a project that uses my installed plugin 1/18/08 10:56:23 PM Xcode[1220] XML parser error: Unexpected character / at line 1 Old-style plist parser error: Unexpected character '0xab' at line 15 1/18/08 10:56:23 PM Xcode[1220] XML parser error: Unexpected character / at line 1 Old-style plist parser error: Unexpected character '0xab' at line 14 (btw, should *this* maybe go to mono-osx instead of cocoa-sharp? ;-) -- marc hoffman RemObjects Software The Infrastructure Company http://www.remobjects.com From mh at elitedev.com Fri Jan 18 17:10:39 2008 From: mh at elitedev.com (marc hoffman) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:10:39 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> Message-ID: <479123DF.5060308@elitedev.com> Manuel, > Seems that we have some communication problems at cocoa-sharp... (big > ones I'd say) We have two different mailing lists : > > cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com > > I really don't understand the mailing list situation: > > As in other project we have a dev and non-dev group, but clearly cocoa > should not have a non-dev group. Think about it, we have evolution and > evolution-dev. The evolution one is for the evolution users while > evolution-dev is for the developers, but in our case we have > developers in both sides. Do we really want the non-dev one since > cocoa is a library anyway. On top of this we are having discussions > about similar things in both and I think things are getting out f hand. > > On the google one a couple of us have been talking about how to write > some proper documentation, I have offer to use my server to held the > project (500 gb per moth bandwidth etc.. ) and I don't mind paying > that. But we seriously have to sort out the group!!!! > > I know that there is people that want to help the group and work a lot > but we first have to fix all the problems we have and centralize all > the info of the project. We have potential coders with the skills but > when they see this situation they get scared. > > We need to discuss a solution... please replay to both mailing lists > so everyone reads it until we decide which one to use. oh boy - last month (or so) i was complaining about cocoa-sharp and mono-osx being one too many lists for this (currently) narrow field. now we have a third that's apparently nt mentioned anywhere on the website? that's bad. i agree that we should consolidate this, ideally down to *one* list (mono-osx), at least to start with until mono on osx gets enough traction to warrant separate lists for the different technologies (such as cocoa-sharp)? comments? -- marc hoffman RemObjects Software The Infrastructure Company http://www.remobjects.com From mh at elitedev.com Fri Jan 18 17:13:59 2008 From: mh at elitedev.com (marc hoffman) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:13:59 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <479123DF.5060308@elitedev.com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <479123DF.5060308@elitedev.com> Message-ID: <479124A7.8090605@elitedev.com> > oh boy - last month (or so) i was complaining about cocoa-sharp and > mono-osx being one too many lists for this (currently) narrow field. now > we have a third that's apparently nt mentioned anywhere on the website? > that's bad. oh wait. cocoa-sharp-dev is that google group thing. oops. ;) anywho, the point remains, imho this needs to be consolidated, coz otherwise half of our (potential) contributors miss the other half... -- marc hoffman RemObjects Software The Infrastructure Company http://www.remobjects.com From andreas.faerber at web.de Fri Jan 18 17:19:02 2008 From: andreas.faerber at web.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_F=E4rber?=) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:19:02 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <4791222C.9020603@elitedev.com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <2EB3D21B-D131-4688-915D-158A19CE6B52@web.de> <4791222C.9020603@elitedev.com> Message-ID: <3717D141-976D-481A-97AE-D1DD4817A2D2@web.de> Am 18.01.2008 um 23:03 schrieb marc hoffman: > Andreas F?rber wrote: >> Syntax errors are actually >> written to the console, I just have [to] look there. ;) > > Yeah. i keep seeing some odd messages myself - i'm not sure if they > pertain to my files (none have problems i line 14/15, and changing > line > to contain some crap i all of them does not change the "Unexpected > character / at line 1", so that would indicate they don't?). > the errors i see in Console are these; too bad they don't specify the > file name. i get them both then opening my plugin project AND when > opening a project that uses my installed plugin > > 1/18/08 10:56:23 PM Xcode[1220] XML parser error: > Unexpected character / at line 1 > Old-style plist parser error: > Unexpected character '0xab' at line 15 > > 1/18/08 10:56:23 PM Xcode[1220] XML parser error: > Unexpected character / at line 1 > Old-style plist parser error: > Unexpected character '0xab' at line 14 You sure? For me it said Could not load '/...' Reason: XML parser error: ... The XML parser error can be ignored, we don't use XML. Make sure you use UTF-16 or UTF-8; it complains about a character. > (btw, should *this* maybe go to mono-osx instead of cocoa-sharp? ;-) Yes: I promised to post my file there! ;) I like keeping things modular and C# is independent of Cocoa#, so they should be separate files from my view; the existing Cocoa# templates can likely be reused independently. I also don't want to limit my work to C#, we should keep a door open for VB, Boo etc. Andreas From mh at elitedev.com Fri Jan 18 17:33:07 2008 From: mh at elitedev.com (marc hoffman) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:33:07 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <3717D141-976D-481A-97AE-D1DD4817A2D2@web.de> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <2EB3D21B-D131-4688-915D-158A19CE6B52@web.de> <4791222C.9020603@elitedev.com> <3717D141-976D-481A-97AE-D1DD4817A2D2@web.de> Message-ID: <47912923.7010702@elitedev.com> Andreas, > You sure? For me it said Could not load '/...' Reason: XML parser error: > ... > The XML parser error can be ignored, we don't use XML. Make sure you use > UTF-16 or UTF-8; it complains about a character. i looked at the relevant files in 0xED, and they all look plain text and 8bit. i know can ignore the xml error, but what i meant is that if chnage the first line to not contain the "/", the error should change. yet, it still complained about a "/" in line one. >> (btw, should *this* maybe go to mono-osx instead of cocoa-sharp? ;-) > > Yes: I promised to post my file there! ;) > I like keeping things modular and C# is independent of Cocoa#, so they > should be separate files from my view; the existing Cocoa# templates can > likely be reused independently. I also don't want to limit my work to > C#, we should keep a door open for VB, Boo etc. and Chrome, yes ;). -- marc hoffman RemObjects Software The Infrastructure Company http://www.remobjects.com From ron_grove at yahoo.com Fri Jan 18 17:30:54 2008 From: ron_grove at yahoo.com (Ron Grove) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:30:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode Message-ID: <854266.83228.qm@web56004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> > we should keep a door open for VB, Boo etc. and Chrome ;-) ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From mh at elitedev.com Fri Jan 18 17:42:47 2008 From: mh at elitedev.com (marc hoffman) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:42:47 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <854266.83228.qm@web56004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <854266.83228.qm@web56004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47912B67.4020402@elitedev.com> Ron, >> we should keep a door open for VB, Boo etc. > > and Chrome ;-) brilliant minds think alike ;) -- marc hoffman RemObjects Software The Infrastructure Company http://www.remobjects.com From d.mueller at mac-garden.com Fri Jan 18 18:28:49 2008 From: d.mueller at mac-garden.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dennis_M=FCller?=) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:28:49 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <47912B67.4020402@elitedev.com> References: <854266.83228.qm@web56004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47912B67.4020402@elitedev.com> Message-ID: <9AA0D154-EB86-48E3-81D6-4D9DBA178D50@mac-garden.com> Am 18.01.2008 um 23:42 schrieb marc hoffman: > Ron, > >>> we should keep a door open for VB, Boo etc. >> >> and Chrome ;-) > > brilliant minds think alike ;) thats how small the world is ;-) we use chrome and data abstract in our ERP software for windows ;-) > > > -- > marc hoffman > > RemObjects Software > The Infrastructure Company > http://www.remobjects.com > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp Mit freundlichen Gr??en - best regards Dennis M?ller d.mueller at mac-garden.com From etil15 at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 18:33:57 2008 From: etil15 at gmail.com (Manuel de la Pena) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:33:57 +0000 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <479124A7.8090605@elitedev.com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <479123DF.5060308@elitedev.com> <479124A7.8090605@elitedev.com> Message-ID: <5CAFF094-C19F-40CD-8F8A-99B07C6F97E3@gmail.com> Now I am very confused.... we should organize this some way, i don't really now how, but we should all agree to use just one mailing list, organize a team and start trying to get things started step by step. On 18/01/2008, at 22:13, marc hoffman wrote: >> oh boy - last month (or so) i was complaining about cocoa-sharp and >> mono-osx being one too many lists for this (currently) narrow >> field. now we have a third that's apparently nt mentioned anywhere >> on the website? that's bad. > > oh wait. cocoa-sharp-dev is that google group thing. oops. ;) > > anywho, the point remains, imho this needs to be consolidated, coz > otherwise half of our (potential) contributors miss the other half... > > -- > marc hoffman > > RemObjects Software > The Infrastructure Company > http://www.remobjects.com From David_Hudson at capgroup.com Fri Jan 18 18:42:49 2008 From: David_Hudson at capgroup.com (David_Hudson at capgroup.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:42:49 -0800 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <479124A7.8090605@elitedev.com> Message-ID: For the goal of consolidation maybe this will help. Here is a summary of all the resources that Cocoa# is directly and indirectly using: *Projects* CocoaSharp CSharp Plugin for Xcode Mono on OSX *Mailing lists* cocoa-sharp at lists.ximain.com cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com mono-osx at lists.ximian.com *Wikis* http://cocoasharp.org http://mono-project.com/CocoaSharp and http://mono-project.com/CSharpPlugin http://code.google.com/p/cocoa-sharp-dev/ *SVN* mono-cvs.ximian.com/source/trunk/cocoa-sharp https://cocoa-sharp-dev.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/csharpxcodeplugin The reason some stuff was moved to google was so that the community could better control svn/wiki access. However, that does not seem to have worked as well as hoped. I am all for moving things back to Mono resources so Cocoa# can keep close ties to Mono. Now that Mono has committed to supporting OSX more that may be a good idea. Thoughts? Dave cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com wrote on 01/18/2008 02:13:59 PM: > > oh boy - last month (or so) i was complaining about cocoa-sharp and > > mono-osx being one too many lists for this (currently) narrow field. now > > we have a third that's apparently nt mentioned anywhere on the website? > > that's bad. > > oh wait. cocoa-sharp-dev is that google group thing. oops. ;) > > anywho, the point remains, imho this needs to be consolidated, coz > otherwise half of our (potential) contributors miss the other half... > > -- > marc hoffman > > RemObjects Software > The Infrastructure Company > http://www.remobjects.com > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp From dru at druware.com Fri Jan 18 18:49:43 2008 From: dru at druware.com (Andrew Satori) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:49:43 -0500 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <5CAFF094-C19F-40CD-8F8A-99B07C6F97E3@gmail.com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <479123DF.5060308@elitedev.com> <479124A7.8090605@elitedev.com> <5CAFF094-C19F-40CD-8F8A-99B07C6F97E3@gmail.com> Message-ID: Alright what you are seeing is the legacy I f how cocoa sharp came to be When geoff, urs and I started all of this the idea was that www.cocoasharp.com would host everything because we weren't part of mono. Unfortunately attrition and slow uptake took it's toll. Urs, adham, and myself all fell off the mono wagon for various reasons FWIW there are4places, there is also a Novello forge project for cocoasharp. That said I think cocoasharp encompasses all things mono and mac because the people involved are the same and the needs are common Given that, the appropriate location is probably mono OSS for general mono on mac and cocoasharp for cocoa related issues Dru (host of cocoasharp.com contributions and suggestions welcomed) Sent from my iPhone On Jan 18, 2008, at 6:33 PM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > Now I am very confused.... we should organize this some way, i don't > really now how, but we should all agree to use just one mailing list, > organize a team and start trying to get things started step by step. > > On 18/01/2008, at 22:13, marc hoffman wrote: > >>> oh boy - last month (or so) i was complaining about cocoa-sharp and >>> mono-osx being one too many lists for this (currently) narrow >>> field. now we have a third that's apparently nt mentioned anywhere >>> on the website? that's bad. >> >> oh wait. cocoa-sharp-dev is that google group thing. oops. ;) >> >> anywho, the point remains, imho this needs to be consolidated, coz >> otherwise half of our (potential) contributors miss the other half... >> >> -- >> marc hoffman >> >> RemObjects Software >> The Infrastructure Company >> http://www.remobjects.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp From andreas.faerber at web.de Sat Jan 19 10:13:31 2008 From: andreas.faerber at web.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_F=E4rber?=) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:13:31 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10BB6D4E-BEBD-4794-B42C-BF81CBCEDC79@web.de> Am 19.01.2008 um 00:42 schrieb David_Hudson at capgroup.com: > For the goal of consolidation maybe this will help. Here is a > summary of > all the resources that Cocoa# is directly and indirectly using: > > *Projects* > CocoaSharp > CSharp Plugin for Xcode > Mono on OSX Some more related projects are: cocoa-sharq (my rewrite forked in 2006) objc-sharp (another similar project by Geoff at Mono) Dumbarton (contributed by imeem to Mono) > *Mailing lists* > cocoa-sharp at lists.ximain.com > cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com > mono-osx at lists.ximian.com > > *Wikis* > http://cocoasharp.org > http://mono-project.com/CocoaSharp and http://mono-project.com/CSharpPlugin > http://code.google.com/p/cocoa-sharp-dev/ > > *SVN* > mono-cvs.ximian.com/source/trunk/cocoa-sharp > https://cocoa-sharp-dev.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/csharpxcodeplugin > > The reason some stuff was moved to google was so that the community > could > better control svn/wiki access. However, that does not seem to have > worked > as well as hoped. I am all for moving things back to Mono resources so > Cocoa# can keep close ties to Mono. Now that Mono has committed to > supporting OSX more that may be a good idea. > > Thoughts? Some consolidation of the various resources would indeed be good. I'd assume there is no -dev and no-dev split between the mailing lists (and I agree that wouldn't make sense), cocoa-sharp-dev is simply the name of the Google project. It would make sense to decide upon which to use for Cocoa# development and to document that. But please don't merge Cocoa# *code review* into Mono-osx. The problem is who moved to Google and who didn't. I don't see Kangaroo, Dru, Urs on your group, neither am I or some others that contributed at some earlier point. So factually cocoa-sharp-dev is another fork even though the code itself still appears to be in Mono's trunk. I believe to really make Cocoa a first-class Mono citizen, a separate project, like Google Code, would be a better place for now as it'll be easier for people to sign up and get SVN access and update pages, and to stay ahead of Mono's release cycle. Compare Geoff's new SWF project where he has to provide updates and bugfixes for the released Mono version through his personal blog that only few people know about. If there's renewed interest in actively working on the ObjC bridge I'd gladly join the effort over at Google. That code hasn't been touched since early 2006 when Geoff picked up parts of my improvements. For my C# plugin however I'd rather not host that at any Cocoa# project. C# syntax coloring is one thing, integration of the various compilers another and templates for specific projects or file types yet another. Andreas From mh at elitedev.com Sun Jan 20 13:15:53 2008 From: mh at elitedev.com (marc hoffman) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:15:53 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <10BB6D4E-BEBD-4794-B42C-BF81CBCEDC79@web.de> References: <10BB6D4E-BEBD-4794-B42C-BF81CBCEDC79@web.de> Message-ID: <47938FD9.3060904@elitedev.com> Andreas, >> For the goal of consolidation maybe this will help. Here is a >> summary of >> all the resources that Cocoa# is directly and indirectly using: >> >> *Projects* >> CocoaSharp >> CSharp Plugin for Xcode >> Mono on OSX > > Some more related projects are: > > cocoa-sharq (my rewrite forked in 2006) does it make sense re-merging these two, or abandoning one or the other? Can you give a brief summary or lins to info on whats different in Cocoa-Sharq vs Cocoa#? > objc-sharp (another similar project by Geoff at Mono) > Dumbarton (contributed by imeem to Mono) Ok ? since Mono SVN is obviously tricky to grant to wide range of people, how about we set up *one* "experimental/work" SVN somewhere, where "anyone" can get access to, with a handful of dedicated people reviewing those changes regularly and migrating them back to the "real" Mono repo? Ideally, *any* development should be moved to the "work" repository, as to avid conflicts with changes happenng directly in Mono? i could offer to provide a public SVN one of our servers for this, for all the project we want (if we wanna move away from google). >> *Mailing lists* >> cocoa-sharp at lists.ximain.com >> cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com >> mono-osx at lists.ximian.com i would recommend closing the google, and putting appropriate infos on the google page so people *unmistakably* know that they are looking at outdated stuff and should go elsewhere. the same would apply to the old cocasharp.org page. right now, when you look at it your first impression is that this *IS* still the official home, and the project is just abandoned. you need to dig a while to find a link to google. again, i could offer to host a proper MediaWiki on our servers for this, if we do want to maintain a more easily editable resource apart from the official project-mono.cm page. in either case, we need to make sure that all three currently existing urls (.org, mono and google) maske it absolutely clear where to go for the party. for the mailing lists, i suggest keeping coca-sharp and mono-osx, but make it VERY obvious everywhere that these lists are mentioned that both exist and that, at this stage, we recommend everyone to subscribe to both? we should definitely close the google list, as its imho to inaccessible. >> *Wikis* >> http://cocoasharp.org >> http://mono-project.com/CocoaSharp and http://mono-project.com/CSharpPlugin >> http://code.google.com/p/cocoa-sharp-dev/ >> >> *SVN* >> mono-cvs.ximian.com/source/trunk/cocoa-sharp >> https://cocoa-sharp-dev.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/csharpxcodeplugin >> >> The reason some stuff was moved to google was so that the community >> could >> better control svn/wiki access. However, that does not seem to have >> worked >> as well as hoped. I am all for moving things back to Mono resources so >> Cocoa# can keep close ties to Mono. Now that Mono has committed to >> supporting OSX more that may be a good idea. >> >> Thoughts? i think either'd be fine, and i can see obvious advantages to both (easy commit access for a broader and ore active team vs. avoiding of duplication) > Some consolidation of the various resources would indeed be good. > > I'd assume there is no -dev and no-dev split between the mailing lists > (and I agree that wouldn't make sense), cocoa-sharp-dev is simply the > name of the Google project. It would make sense to decide upon which > to use for Cocoa# development and to document that. > But please don't merge Cocoa# *code review* into Mono-osx. agreed, id suggest to keep the two ximian lists, with the notes above. > The problem is who moved to Google and who didn't. I don't see > Kangaroo, Dru, Urs on your group, neither am I or some others that > contributed at some earlier point. So factually cocoa-sharp-dev is > another fork even though the code itself still appears to be in Mono's > trunk. > > I believe to really make Cocoa a first-class Mono citizen, a separate > project, like Google Code, would be a better place for now as it'll be > easier for people to sign up and get SVN access and update pages, and > to stay ahead of Mono's release cycle. Compare Geoff's new SWF project > where he has to provide updates and bugfixes for the released Mono > version through his personal blog that only few people know about. good point, yes. however, ideally such bugfixes could also be mentioned on the relevant Mono wiki pages (which right now, i our case are severely outdated and no-one ooks at for those reasons - but that can be changed. if people knew that mono-project.com/CocoaSharp had up to ate infos (rather than being 2 years old), they'd check there. > If there's renewed interest in actively working on the ObjC bridge I'd > gladly join the effort over at Google. That code hasn't been touched > since early 2006 when Geoff picked up parts of my improvements. > > For my C# plugin however I'd rather not host that at any Cocoa# > project. C# syntax coloring is one thing, integration of the various > compilers another and templates for specific projects or file types > yet another. Maybe we need one "work" repository for all these OSX related efforts, not just Cocoa# - and your Xcode plugin would fit in there as well? i certainly wold appreciate having that in some SVN, as i wanna wokr on getting Chrome integrated into XC3 as well, and ideally we should be able to work together to create something language-agnostic as a base, that wll work for C# and Chrome (and VB and whomever else)? (ftr, ths reply will not show on cocoa-sharp-dev as google doesn't allow to subscribe from non-gmail addresses. one more reason, imho, to get rid of google) -- marc hoffman RemObjects Software The Infrastructure Company http://www.remobjects.com From ajbrehm at gmail.com Sun Jan 20 17:25:45 2008 From: ajbrehm at gmail.com (Andrew Brehm) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:25:45 +0000 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Tutorial: Stupid Word Counter Message-ID: <49f8fc020801201425u14532fdbn3e6b271b3e48c9ac@mail.gmail.com> I wrote a simple tutorial for Cocoa#. It focuses on creating a C# program in Visual Studio with a Cocoa# port in mind. http://www.netneurotic.net/DNET/StupidWordCounter/ Yes, I realise it's simple; but it does cover the fundamentals. There is more to come. Have fun! Andrew. From etil15 at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 03:49:56 2008 From: etil15 at gmail.com (Manuel de la Pena) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:49:56 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Tutorial: Stupid Word Counter In-Reply-To: <49f8fc020801201425u14532fdbn3e6b271b3e48c9ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <49f8fc020801201425u14532fdbn3e6b271b3e48c9ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1200905396.13091.8.camel@fustaca> hi guy, I'm out of town again... but I'll be posting my two tutorials ASAP, I doubt that could be earlier than the 24 since I had to go back home for a funeral. This is a small exp of the tutorials: 1. Small hello world that uses pure multi-platform c# classes and Cococa GUI 2. Virtual Library that uses ADO.NET to create a sqlite databases and perform all the operations. It has a Cocoa GUI for the app. All this tutorial use objcsharp which means that they should be a good intro for all those people that want to help with the development of the cocoa sharp libs. I'm also planning to start the following: 1. Develop the Cocoa sharp lib for the Apple Address Book. 2. Develop a twin namespace in pure c# that will imitate the behaviour of the above one. That way people running Linux or Windows will be able to have the same funtionality. On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 22:25 +0000, Andrew Brehm wrote: > I wrote a simple tutorial for Cocoa#. > > It focuses on creating a C# program in Visual Studio with a Cocoa# > port in mind. > > http://www.netneurotic.net/DNET/StupidWordCounter/ > > Yes, I realise it's simple; but it does cover the fundamentals. > > There is more to come. > > Have fun! > Andrew. > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp From ajbrehm at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 17:28:07 2008 From: ajbrehm at gmail.com (Leauki) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:28:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com><576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> Message-ID: <7b25d82f-0ff0-40f0-a151-9033961dee06@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> Manuel de la Pena wrote: > As in other project we have a dev and non-dev group, but clearly cocoa > should not have a non-dev group. Think about it, we have evolution and > evolution-dev. The evolution one is for the evolution users while > evolution-dev is for the developers, but in our case we have > developers in both sides. Do we really want the non-dev one since > cocoa is a library anyway. On top of this we are having discussions > about similar things in both and I think things are getting out f hand. Hm... wouldn't CocoaSharp users be developers who develop applications based on CocoaSharp while CocoaSharp developers are developers who work on CocoaSharp itself? I see your point, but I don't know why they made the distinction. Perhaps that is why. > On the google one a couple of us have been talking about how to write > some proper documentation, I have offer to use my server to held the > project (500 gb per moth bandwidth etc.. ) and I don't mind paying > that. But we seriously have to sort out the group!!!! That is true. I find everything very confusing. I have some stuff for the site, once it gets started. > I know that there is people that want to help the group and work a lot > but we first have to fix all the problems we have and centralize all > the info of the project. We have potential coders with the skills but > when they see this situation they get scared. Can we figure out or make a list of who we are and who can do what? I am working on beginner's how-to docs, for what it's worth. I can't contribute to CocoaSharp itself (I gave two reasons to some readers here), but I want to use CocoaSharp and do what I can do to help. I have testing experience, am familiar with Visual Studio and Xcode, and use Macs at home and Windows at work, hence feel at home with CocoaSharp. BTW, I'm in Dublin, Ireland. > We need to discuss a solution... please replay to both mailing lists > so everyone reads it until we decide which one to use. I suggest the Google group, it's easier to access on the road. I check the groups from work. From etil15 at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 14:11:26 2008 From: etil15 at gmail.com (Manuel de la Pena) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:11:26 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] [Mono-list] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <298B53DD-933C-4570-82CE-FE578327E3D1@novell.com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com> <576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <298B53DD-933C-4570-82CE-FE578327E3D1@novell.com> Message-ID: <1200942686.6661.4.camel@fustaca> Hi, I'm willing to help in the new Cocoa# development, does that main that is better to wait until you post the new code?? If everything is going to be changed we might as well wait until we get your new code. Let me know which is the best way to proceed and which way can I help you. Cheers, Manuel On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 13:30 -0500, Geoff Norton wrote: > Removed mono-list cause this has nothing to do with that. > > I am the founder and maintainer of Cocoa# which has languished for > some time but there is some new found interest of late, and my > employment at novell has freed up time to do a better job of > maintainership. > > I didn't start the google group, I dont run it. It has nothing to do > with the Cocoa# effort as far as I'm concerned. > > All Cocoa# development takes place on cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com. > > I've mentioned in a few places that I've written a binding to > objective-c v2 which will become the new foundation for Cocoa# and > ObjC#. I hope to land at least some preliminary stuff in svn in the > next week or two to start planning the next generation of cocoa# > > -g > > On 18-Jan-08, at 2:24 PM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > > > Seems that we have some communication problems at cocoa-sharp... (big > > ones I'd say) We have two different mailing lists : > > > > cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > > cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com > > > > I really don't understand the mailing list situation: > > > > As in other project we have a dev and non-dev group, but clearly cocoa > > should not have a non-dev group. Think about it, we have evolution and > > evolution-dev. The evolution one is for the evolution users while > > evolution-dev is for the developers, but in our case we have > > developers in both sides. Do we really want the non-dev one since > > cocoa is a library anyway. On top of this we are having discussions > > about similar things in both and I think things are getting out f > > hand. > > > > On the google one a couple of us have been talking about how to write > > some proper documentation, I have offer to use my server to held the > > project (500 gb per moth bandwidth etc.. ) and I don't mind paying > > that. But we seriously have to sort out the group!!!! > > > > I know that there is people that want to help the group and work a lot > > but we first have to fix all the problems we have and centralize all > > the info of the project. We have potential coders with the skills but > > when they see this situation they get scared. > > > > We need to discuss a solution... please replay to both mailing lists > > so everyone reads it until we decide which one to use. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Manuel > > > > PS: For the time being I recommend everyone to read both. > > > > PS 2: I've also posted this at the mono lists to get some help from > > our big brothers at mono, I'm sure they can give us a hand. > > > > On 18/01/2008, at 18:08, Andreas F?rber wrote: > > > >> Hey, > >> > >> Am 18.01.2008 um 17:32 schrieb marc hoffman: > >> > >>> I'd love to help out if i can. I've already looked into getting some > >>> of this > >>> stuff working in Xcode 3 a while back but iirc it failed on the > >>> langspec, and i > >>> couldn't figure out what part it didn't like anymore :(. If you have > >>> anything > >>> that works better than what's in SVN now, i'd love to have a look. > >> > >> I'm still at the stage that I don't see anything of what I've written > >> in Xcode, no new menu item. > >> > >>> Out of curiosity: are you baisn gyour work on any official or semi- > >>> official > >>> documentation that might be out there (i couldn?t find any on ADC), > >>> or are you > >>> too just doing this by trial-and-error and the few unofficial infos > >>> that Google > >>> serves up (such as http://maxao.free.fr/xcode-plugin-interface/index.html)? > >> > >> I am not aware of any documentation other than Damien's, and that was > >> not even up-to-date for 2.3. Moreover I see his headers for native > >> ObjC code as problematic (they are GPL, thus any code derived from it > >> becomes GPL while Xcode is not GPL; depending on interpretations, > >> this > >> can be regarded as violation) and instead had a BSD-ish plugin based > >> on Cocoa-sharq; the accompanying spec files were integrated with > >> bridged ObjC code, and ObjC is the part we can pretty much dump first > >> when a new version is out... I used a managed framework to inspect > >> the > >> available classes, their methods and then probed all interesting > >> parameters, and in the end some trial-and-error. I'd like to avoid > >> that work for now! > >> > >> So currently I am trying to deploy my draft spec files to /Developer/ > >> Library/Xcode/Specifications but I'm not sure if they are even being > >> picked up there, there are only xctxtmacro files and an xcplugin > >> there. (it would've been handy) > >> > >> There are some files in /Developer/Library/PrivateFrameworks/ > >> DevToolsCore.framework/Resources that look the same as in Xcode 2.4 > >> (pb*spec). XcodeEdit.Framework has differing "xclangspec" files. > >> ASKPlugin uses an xcspec file containing an old-style language > >> definition (referring to a custom native scanner). > >> Looking at the existing local Xcode files is the closest thing to > >> "documentation" I currently have. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Andreas > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Cocoa-sharp mailing list > >> Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > >> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mono-list maillist - Mono-list at lists.ximian.com > > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list > From gnorton at novell.com Mon Jan 21 14:29:19 2008 From: gnorton at novell.com (Geoff Norton) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:29:19 -0500 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] [Mono-list] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <1200942686.6661.4.camel@fustaca> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com> <576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <298B53DD-933C-4570-82CE-FE578327E3D1@novell.com> <1200942686.6661.4.camel@fustaca> Message-ID: <7A0CE00C-1330-4659-BF4D-BFEC3CAA7392@novell.com> Manuel, Yes its likely better for me to post objc2# so that we can collaboratively determine a solid foundation for ALL bindings that will use ObjC in the future. I'll try to get something in SVN by end of week; then perhaps we can organize an IRC meeting for all interested parties to hash things out. -g On 21-Jan-08, at 2:11 PM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > Hi, > > I'm willing to help in the new Cocoa# development, does that main that > is better to wait until you post the new code?? If everything is going > to be changed we might as well wait until we get your new code. > > Let me know which is the best way to proceed and which way can I help > you. > > Cheers, > > Manuel > > On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 13:30 -0500, Geoff Norton wrote: >> Removed mono-list cause this has nothing to do with that. >> >> I am the founder and maintainer of Cocoa# which has languished for >> some time but there is some new found interest of late, and my >> employment at novell has freed up time to do a better job of >> maintainership. >> >> I didn't start the google group, I dont run it. It has nothing to do >> with the Cocoa# effort as far as I'm concerned. >> >> All Cocoa# development takes place on cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com. >> >> I've mentioned in a few places that I've written a binding to >> objective-c v2 which will become the new foundation for Cocoa# and >> ObjC#. I hope to land at least some preliminary stuff in svn in the >> next week or two to start planning the next generation of cocoa# >> >> -g >> >> On 18-Jan-08, at 2:24 PM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: >> >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> Seems that we have some communication problems at cocoa-sharp... >>> (big >>> ones I'd say) We have two different mailing lists : >>> >>> cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com >>> cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com >>> >>> I really don't understand the mailing list situation: >>> >>> As in other project we have a dev and non-dev group, but clearly >>> cocoa >>> should not have a non-dev group. Think about it, we have evolution >>> and >>> evolution-dev. The evolution one is for the evolution users while >>> evolution-dev is for the developers, but in our case we have >>> developers in both sides. Do we really want the non-dev one since >>> cocoa is a library anyway. On top of this we are having discussions >>> about similar things in both and I think things are getting out f >>> hand. >>> >>> On the google one a couple of us have been talking about how to >>> write >>> some proper documentation, I have offer to use my server to held the >>> project (500 gb per moth bandwidth etc.. ) and I don't mind paying >>> that. But we seriously have to sort out the group!!!! >>> >>> I know that there is people that want to help the group and work a >>> lot >>> but we first have to fix all the problems we have and centralize all >>> the info of the project. We have potential coders with the skills >>> but >>> when they see this situation they get scared. >>> >>> We need to discuss a solution... please replay to both mailing lists >>> so everyone reads it until we decide which one to use. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Manuel >>> >>> PS: For the time being I recommend everyone to read both. >>> >>> PS 2: I've also posted this at the mono lists to get some help from >>> our big brothers at mono, I'm sure they can give us a hand. >>> >>> On 18/01/2008, at 18:08, Andreas F?rber wrote: >>> >>>> Hey, >>>> >>>> Am 18.01.2008 um 17:32 schrieb marc hoffman: >>>> >>>>> I'd love to help out if i can. I've already looked into getting >>>>> some >>>>> of this >>>>> stuff working in Xcode 3 a while back but iirc it failed on the >>>>> langspec, and i >>>>> couldn't figure out what part it didn't like anymore :(. If you >>>>> have >>>>> anything >>>>> that works better than what's in SVN now, i'd love to have a look. >>>> >>>> I'm still at the stage that I don't see anything of what I've >>>> written >>>> in Xcode, no new menu item. >>>> >>>>> Out of curiosity: are you baisn gyour work on any official or >>>>> semi- >>>>> official >>>>> documentation that might be out there (i couldn?t find any on >>>>> ADC), >>>>> or are you >>>>> too just doing this by trial-and-error and the few unofficial >>>>> infos >>>>> that Google >>>>> serves up (such as http://maxao.free.fr/xcode-plugin-interface/index.html)? >>>> >>>> I am not aware of any documentation other than Damien's, and that >>>> was >>>> not even up-to-date for 2.3. Moreover I see his headers for native >>>> ObjC code as problematic (they are GPL, thus any code derived >>>> from it >>>> becomes GPL while Xcode is not GPL; depending on interpretations, >>>> this >>>> can be regarded as violation) and instead had a BSD-ish plugin >>>> based >>>> on Cocoa-sharq; the accompanying spec files were integrated with >>>> bridged ObjC code, and ObjC is the part we can pretty much dump >>>> first >>>> when a new version is out... I used a managed framework to inspect >>>> the >>>> available classes, their methods and then probed all interesting >>>> parameters, and in the end some trial-and-error. I'd like to avoid >>>> that work for now! >>>> >>>> So currently I am trying to deploy my draft spec files to / >>>> Developer/ >>>> Library/Xcode/Specifications but I'm not sure if they are even >>>> being >>>> picked up there, there are only xctxtmacro files and an xcplugin >>>> there. (it would've been handy) >>>> >>>> There are some files in /Developer/Library/PrivateFrameworks/ >>>> DevToolsCore.framework/Resources that look the same as in Xcode 2.4 >>>> (pb*spec). XcodeEdit.Framework has differing "xclangspec" files. >>>> ASKPlugin uses an xcspec file containing an old-style language >>>> definition (referring to a custom native scanner). >>>> Looking at the existing local Xcode files is the closest thing to >>>> "documentation" I currently have. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Andreas >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Cocoa-sharp mailing list >>>> Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com >>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mono-list maillist - Mono-list at lists.ximian.com >>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list >> > From ajbrehm at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 14:30:09 2008 From: ajbrehm at gmail.com (Andrew Brehm) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:30:09 +0000 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] [Mono-list] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <1200942686.6661.4.camel@fustaca> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com> <576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <298B53DD-933C-4570-82CE-FE578327E3D1@novell.com> <1200942686.6661.4.camel@fustaca> Message-ID: <49f8fc020801211130v7a5fb302n241bd6dfba2518f7@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Does "new foundation" mean that everything will change, or will current features still work? I just got used to Cocoa# as it is. Anyway, this whole thing looks a lot better now than just a month ago, when I first started reading the mailing lists and posting to the Google group (which I will abandon now). It's fun seeing a project revived like this! Andrew. On Jan 21, 2008 7:11 PM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > Hi, > > I'm willing to help in the new Cocoa# development, does that main that > is better to wait until you post the new code?? If everything is going > to be changed we might as well wait until we get your new code. > > Let me know which is the best way to proceed and which way can I help > you. > > Cheers, > > Manuel > > On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 13:30 -0500, Geoff Norton wrote: > > Removed mono-list cause this has nothing to do with that. > > > > I am the founder and maintainer of Cocoa# which has languished for > > some time but there is some new found interest of late, and my > > employment at novell has freed up time to do a better job of > > maintainership. > > > > I didn't start the google group, I dont run it. It has nothing to do > > with the Cocoa# effort as far as I'm concerned. > > > > All Cocoa# development takes place on cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com. > > > > I've mentioned in a few places that I've written a binding to > > objective-c v2 which will become the new foundation for Cocoa# and > > ObjC#. I hope to land at least some preliminary stuff in svn in the > > next week or two to start planning the next generation of cocoa# > > > > -g From ajbrehm at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 14:33:01 2008 From: ajbrehm at gmail.com (Andrew Brehm) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:33:01 +0000 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] [Mono-list] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <7A0CE00C-1330-4659-BF4D-BFEC3CAA7392@novell.com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com> <576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <298B53DD-933C-4570-82CE-FE578327E3D1@novell.com> <1200942686.6661.4.camel@fustaca> <7A0CE00C-1330-4659-BF4D-BFEC3CAA7392@novell.com> Message-ID: <49f8fc020801211133s1d0f59b0xf38077e4a811b49b@mail.gmail.com> Unless that meeting falls on Friday 8 PM to 10 PM GMT, I'll be there (for what it's worth). :) On Jan 21, 2008 7:29 PM, Geoff Norton wrote: > Manuel, > > Yes its likely better for me to post objc2# so that we can > collaboratively determine a solid foundation for ALL bindings that > will use ObjC in the future. I'll try to get something in SVN by end > of week; then perhaps we can organize an IRC meeting for all > interested parties to hash things out. > > -g > > > On 21-Jan-08, at 2:11 PM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I'm willing to help in the new Cocoa# development, does that main that > > is better to wait until you post the new code?? If everything is going > > to be changed we might as well wait until we get your new code. > > > > Let me know which is the best way to proceed and which way can I help > > you. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Manuel > > > > On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 13:30 -0500, Geoff Norton wrote: > >> Removed mono-list cause this has nothing to do with that. > >> > >> I am the founder and maintainer of Cocoa# which has languished for > >> some time but there is some new found interest of late, and my > >> employment at novell has freed up time to do a better job of > >> maintainership. > >> > >> I didn't start the google group, I dont run it. It has nothing to do > >> with the Cocoa# effort as far as I'm concerned. > >> > >> All Cocoa# development takes place on cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com. > >> > >> I've mentioned in a few places that I've written a binding to > >> objective-c v2 which will become the new foundation for Cocoa# and > >> ObjC#. I hope to land at least some preliminary stuff in svn in the > >> next week or two to start planning the next generation of cocoa# > >> > >> -g > >> > >> On 18-Jan-08, at 2:24 PM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > >> > >>> Hi guys, > >>> > >>> Seems that we have some communication problems at cocoa-sharp... > >>> (big > >>> ones I'd say) We have two different mailing lists : > >>> > >>> cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > >>> cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com > >>> > >>> I really don't understand the mailing list situation: > >>> > >>> As in other project we have a dev and non-dev group, but clearly > >>> cocoa > >>> should not have a non-dev group. Think about it, we have evolution > >>> and > >>> evolution-dev. The evolution one is for the evolution users while > >>> evolution-dev is for the developers, but in our case we have > >>> developers in both sides. Do we really want the non-dev one since > >>> cocoa is a library anyway. On top of this we are having discussions > >>> about similar things in both and I think things are getting out f > >>> hand. > >>> > >>> On the google one a couple of us have been talking about how to > >>> write > >>> some proper documentation, I have offer to use my server to held the > >>> project (500 gb per moth bandwidth etc.. ) and I don't mind paying > >>> that. But we seriously have to sort out the group!!!! > >>> > >>> I know that there is people that want to help the group and work a > >>> lot > >>> but we first have to fix all the problems we have and centralize all > >>> the info of the project. We have potential coders with the skills > >>> but > >>> when they see this situation they get scared. > >>> > >>> We need to discuss a solution... please replay to both mailing lists > >>> so everyone reads it until we decide which one to use. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Manuel > >>> > >>> PS: For the time being I recommend everyone to read both. > >>> > >>> PS 2: I've also posted this at the mono lists to get some help from > >>> our big brothers at mono, I'm sure they can give us a hand. > >>> > >>> On 18/01/2008, at 18:08, Andreas F?rber wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hey, > >>>> > >>>> Am 18.01.2008 um 17:32 schrieb marc hoffman: > >>>> > >>>>> I'd love to help out if i can. I've already looked into getting > >>>>> some > >>>>> of this > >>>>> stuff working in Xcode 3 a while back but iirc it failed on the > >>>>> langspec, and i > >>>>> couldn't figure out what part it didn't like anymore :(. If you > >>>>> have > >>>>> anything > >>>>> that works better than what's in SVN now, i'd love to have a look. > >>>> > >>>> I'm still at the stage that I don't see anything of what I've > >>>> written > >>>> in Xcode, no new menu item. > >>>> > >>>>> Out of curiosity: are you baisn gyour work on any official or > >>>>> semi- > >>>>> official > >>>>> documentation that might be out there (i couldn't find any on > >>>>> ADC), > >>>>> or are you > >>>>> too just doing this by trial-and-error and the few unofficial > >>>>> infos > >>>>> that Google > >>>>> serves up (such as http://maxao.free.fr/xcode-plugin-interface/index.html)? > >>>> > >>>> I am not aware of any documentation other than Damien's, and that > >>>> was > >>>> not even up-to-date for 2.3. Moreover I see his headers for native > >>>> ObjC code as problematic (they are GPL, thus any code derived > >>>> from it > >>>> becomes GPL while Xcode is not GPL; depending on interpretations, > >>>> this > >>>> can be regarded as violation) and instead had a BSD-ish plugin > >>>> based > >>>> on Cocoa-sharq; the accompanying spec files were integrated with > >>>> bridged ObjC code, and ObjC is the part we can pretty much dump > >>>> first > >>>> when a new version is out... I used a managed framework to inspect > >>>> the > >>>> available classes, their methods and then probed all interesting > >>>> parameters, and in the end some trial-and-error. I'd like to avoid > >>>> that work for now! > >>>> > >>>> So currently I am trying to deploy my draft spec files to / > >>>> Developer/ > >>>> Library/Xcode/Specifications but I'm not sure if they are even > >>>> being > >>>> picked up there, there are only xctxtmacro files and an xcplugin > >>>> there. (it would've been handy) > >>>> > >>>> There are some files in /Developer/Library/PrivateFrameworks/ > >>>> DevToolsCore.framework/Resources that look the same as in Xcode 2.4 > >>>> (pb*spec). XcodeEdit.Framework has differing "xclangspec" files. > >>>> ASKPlugin uses an xcspec file containing an old-style language > >>>> definition (referring to a custom native scanner). > >>>> Looking at the existing local Xcode files is the closest thing to > >>>> "documentation" I currently have. > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> > >>>> Andreas > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Cocoa-sharp mailing list > >>>> Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > >>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Mono-list maillist - Mono-list at lists.ximian.com > >>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > From gnorton at novell.com Mon Jan 21 14:33:59 2008 From: gnorton at novell.com (Geoff Norton) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:33:59 -0500 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] [Mono-list] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <49f8fc020801211130v7a5fb302n241bd6dfba2518f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com> <576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <298B53DD-933C-4570-82CE-FE578327E3D1@novell.com> <1200942686.6661.4.camel@fustaca> <49f8fc020801211130v7a5fb302n241bd6dfba2518f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86E58EB2-04E7-4773-98F4-8258D8FA0D06@novell.com> If breaking API changes are introduced there will be a major # bump allowing you to target the old assembly if you so which (the power of the gac) -g On 21-Jan-08, at 2:30 PM, Andrew Brehm wrote: > Hi, > > Does "new foundation" mean that everything will change, or will > current features still work? > > I just got used to Cocoa# as it is. > > Anyway, this whole thing looks a lot better now than just a month ago, > when I first started reading the mailing lists and posting to the > Google group (which I will abandon now). It's fun seeing a project > revived like this! > > Andrew. > > > On Jan 21, 2008 7:11 PM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I'm willing to help in the new Cocoa# development, does that main >> that >> is better to wait until you post the new code?? If everything is >> going >> to be changed we might as well wait until we get your new code. >> >> Let me know which is the best way to proceed and which way can I help >> you. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Manuel >> >> On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 13:30 -0500, Geoff Norton wrote: >>> Removed mono-list cause this has nothing to do with that. >>> >>> I am the founder and maintainer of Cocoa# which has languished for >>> some time but there is some new found interest of late, and my >>> employment at novell has freed up time to do a better job of >>> maintainership. >>> >>> I didn't start the google group, I dont run it. It has nothing to >>> do >>> with the Cocoa# effort as far as I'm concerned. >>> >>> All Cocoa# development takes place on cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com. >>> >>> I've mentioned in a few places that I've written a binding to >>> objective-c v2 which will become the new foundation for Cocoa# and >>> ObjC#. I hope to land at least some preliminary stuff in svn in the >>> next week or two to start planning the next generation of cocoa# >>> >>> -g From etil15 at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 14:38:36 2008 From: etil15 at gmail.com (Manuel de la Pena) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:38:36 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] [Mono-list] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <7A0CE00C-1330-4659-BF4D-BFEC3CAA7392@novell.com> References: <853D0510-9A77-4E41-A3A2-35E92BAFACDF@mac-garden.com> <576548E8-00E7-4393-8E9E-51A8B85B550B@druware.com> <000201c859ef$cdbb2930$69317b90$@com> <8FA5B1ED-60A0-466B-B202-DB68AE1B7727@web.de> <298B53DD-933C-4570-82CE-FE578327E3D1@novell.com> <1200942686.6661.4.camel@fustaca> <7A0CE00C-1330-4659-BF4D-BFEC3CAA7392@novell.com> Message-ID: <1200944317.6661.11.camel@fustaca> Hi Geoff, Andrew That sounds just great, I think using IRC seems to be the best idea. Using your new bindings is going to be exciting, I can't wait for that. Are we going to start from scratch? After the "virtual" death of the project plus the addition of the new bindings it might be the very best idea. Let me know what I can do to help. Manuel On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 14:29 -0500, Geoff Norton wrote: > Manuel, > > Yes its likely better for me to post objc2# so that we can > collaboratively determine a solid foundation for ALL bindings that > will use ObjC in the future. I'll try to get something in SVN by end > of week; then perhaps we can organize an IRC meeting for all > interested parties to hash things out. > > -g > > On 21-Jan-08, at 2:11 PM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I'm willing to help in the new Cocoa# development, does that main that > > is better to wait until you post the new code?? If everything is going > > to be changed we might as well wait until we get your new code. > > > > Let me know which is the best way to proceed and which way can I help > > you. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Manuel > > > > On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 13:30 -0500, Geoff Norton wrote: > >> Removed mono-list cause this has nothing to do with that. > >> > >> I am the founder and maintainer of Cocoa# which has languished for > >> some time but there is some new found interest of late, and my > >> employment at novell has freed up time to do a better job of > >> maintainership. > >> > >> I didn't start the google group, I dont run it. It has nothing to do > >> with the Cocoa# effort as far as I'm concerned. > >> > >> All Cocoa# development takes place on cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com. > >> > >> I've mentioned in a few places that I've written a binding to > >> objective-c v2 which will become the new foundation for Cocoa# and > >> ObjC#. I hope to land at least some preliminary stuff in svn in the > >> next week or two to start planning the next generation of cocoa# > >> > >> -g > >> > >> On 18-Jan-08, at 2:24 PM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > >> > >>> Hi guys, > >>> > >>> Seems that we have some communication problems at cocoa-sharp... > >>> (big > >>> ones I'd say) We have two different mailing lists : > >>> > >>> cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > >>> cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com > >>> > >>> I really don't understand the mailing list situation: > >>> > >>> As in other project we have a dev and non-dev group, but clearly > >>> cocoa > >>> should not have a non-dev group. Think about it, we have evolution > >>> and > >>> evolution-dev. The evolution one is for the evolution users while > >>> evolution-dev is for the developers, but in our case we have > >>> developers in both sides. Do we really want the non-dev one since > >>> cocoa is a library anyway. On top of this we are having discussions > >>> about similar things in both and I think things are getting out f > >>> hand. > >>> > >>> On the google one a couple of us have been talking about how to > >>> write > >>> some proper documentation, I have offer to use my server to held the > >>> project (500 gb per moth bandwidth etc.. ) and I don't mind paying > >>> that. But we seriously have to sort out the group!!!! > >>> > >>> I know that there is people that want to help the group and work a > >>> lot > >>> but we first have to fix all the problems we have and centralize all > >>> the info of the project. We have potential coders with the skills > >>> but > >>> when they see this situation they get scared. > >>> > >>> We need to discuss a solution... please replay to both mailing lists > >>> so everyone reads it until we decide which one to use. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Manuel > >>> > >>> PS: For the time being I recommend everyone to read both. > >>> > >>> PS 2: I've also posted this at the mono lists to get some help from > >>> our big brothers at mono, I'm sure they can give us a hand. > >>> > >>> On 18/01/2008, at 18:08, Andreas F?rber wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hey, > >>>> > >>>> Am 18.01.2008 um 17:32 schrieb marc hoffman: > >>>> > >>>>> I'd love to help out if i can. I've already looked into getting > >>>>> some > >>>>> of this > >>>>> stuff working in Xcode 3 a while back but iirc it failed on the > >>>>> langspec, and i > >>>>> couldn't figure out what part it didn't like anymore :(. If you > >>>>> have > >>>>> anything > >>>>> that works better than what's in SVN now, i'd love to have a look. > >>>> > >>>> I'm still at the stage that I don't see anything of what I've > >>>> written > >>>> in Xcode, no new menu item. > >>>> > >>>>> Out of curiosity: are you baisn gyour work on any official or > >>>>> semi- > >>>>> official > >>>>> documentation that might be out there (i couldn?t find any on > >>>>> ADC), > >>>>> or are you > >>>>> too just doing this by trial-and-error and the few unofficial > >>>>> infos > >>>>> that Google > >>>>> serves up (such as http://maxao.free.fr/xcode-plugin-interface/index.html)? > >>>> > >>>> I am not aware of any documentation other than Damien's, and that > >>>> was > >>>> not even up-to-date for 2.3. Moreover I see his headers for native > >>>> ObjC code as problematic (they are GPL, thus any code derived > >>>> from it > >>>> becomes GPL while Xcode is not GPL; depending on interpretations, > >>>> this > >>>> can be regarded as violation) and instead had a BSD-ish plugin > >>>> based > >>>> on Cocoa-sharq; the accompanying spec files were integrated with > >>>> bridged ObjC code, and ObjC is the part we can pretty much dump > >>>> first > >>>> when a new version is out... I used a managed framework to inspect > >>>> the > >>>> available classes, their methods and then probed all interesting > >>>> parameters, and in the end some trial-and-error. I'd like to avoid > >>>> that work for now! > >>>> > >>>> So currently I am trying to deploy my draft spec files to / > >>>> Developer/ > >>>> Library/Xcode/Specifications but I'm not sure if they are even > >>>> being > >>>> picked up there, there are only xctxtmacro files and an xcplugin > >>>> there. (it would've been handy) > >>>> > >>>> There are some files in /Developer/Library/PrivateFrameworks/ > >>>> DevToolsCore.framework/Resources that look the same as in Xcode 2.4 > >>>> (pb*spec). XcodeEdit.Framework has differing "xclangspec" files. > >>>> ASKPlugin uses an xcspec file containing an old-style language > >>>> definition (referring to a custom native scanner). > >>>> Looking at the existing local Xcode files is the closest thing to > >>>> "documentation" I currently have. > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> > >>>> Andreas > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Cocoa-sharp mailing list > >>>> Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > >>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Mono-list maillist - Mono-list at lists.ximian.com > >>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp From miguel at novell.com Mon Jan 21 21:12:13 2008 From: miguel at novell.com (Miguel de Icaza) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:12:13 -0500 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] [Mono-osx] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <47938FD9.3060904@elitedev.com> References: <10BB6D4E-BEBD-4794-B42C-BF81CBCEDC79@web.de> <47938FD9.3060904@elitedev.com> Message-ID: <1200967933.10811.28.camel@erandi.boston.ximian.com> > Ok ? since Mono SVN is obviously tricky to grant to wide range of > people, how about we set up *one* "experimental/work" SVN somewhere, > where "anyone" can get access to, with a handful of dedicated people > reviewing those changes regularly and migrating them back to the "real" > Mono repo? Ideally, *any* development should be moved to the "work" > repository, as to avid conflicts with changes happenng directly in Mono? Although so far we have yet to see "a wide range of people", only a handful of people ever contribute, so this is not a major issue. Of course, we require contributors to our repository to follow certain rules, but I assume that would happen anywhere. Miguel From michael.r.caron at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 21:28:53 2008 From: michael.r.caron at gmail.com (Michael Caron) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:28:53 -0600 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop In-Reply-To: <1200967933.10811.28.camel@erandi.boston.ximian.com> References: <10BB6D4E-BEBD-4794-B42C-BF81CBCEDC79@web.de> <47938FD9.3060904@elitedev.com> <1200967933.10811.28.camel@erandi.boston.ximian.com> Message-ID: <3C3D5113-FA19-4133-83C6-F88D0D9BDDD1@gmail.com> So I'd love to start helping, but where to start? I haven't seen much of a 'todo' list... is it just kind of try out what's there and what's not...? From mandel at themacaque.com Tue Jan 22 03:51:00 2008 From: mandel at themacaque.com (Manuel de la Pena) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:51:00 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop In-Reply-To: <3C3D5113-FA19-4133-83C6-F88D0D9BDDD1@gmail.com> References: <10BB6D4E-BEBD-4794-B42C-BF81CBCEDC79@web.de> <47938FD9.3060904@elitedev.com> <1200967933.10811.28.camel@erandi.boston.ximian.com> <3C3D5113-FA19-4133-83C6-F88D0D9BDDD1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c85cd3$ec4ea110$c4ebe330$@com> Hi Michael, We have been talking about the situation of cocoa sharp in the past few days. The project seemed to have died, but like Dr. Frankenstain would say: It's alive!!!! It's alive!!!! We are back on track and waiting for Geoff (Norton) to post his new bindings for ObjC v2. Here is a quote of what he said: "I'll try to get something in SVN by end of week; then perhaps we can organize an IRC meeting for all interested parties to hash things out." Which means that the best thing to do is to wait until he commits the new code and meet on IRC at some point. There are a number of developers that are going to help, trust me this is very exciting, the group has made a great improvement since last Friday, you should read the list archives to be more or less uptodate. I hope this helps, Manuel -----Original Message----- From: cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com [mailto:cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of Michael Caron Sent: 22 January 2008 03:29 To: Miguel de Icaza Cc: cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com; cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com; mono-osx at lists.ximian.com Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop So I'd love to start helping, but where to start? I haven't seen much of a 'todo' list... is it just kind of try out what's there and what's not...? _______________________________________________ Cocoa-sharp mailing list Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp From ajbrehm at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 04:09:34 2008 From: ajbrehm at gmail.com (Andrew Brehm) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:09:34 +0000 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop In-Reply-To: <000001c85cd3$ec4ea110$c4ebe330$@com> References: <10BB6D4E-BEBD-4794-B42C-BF81CBCEDC79@web.de> <47938FD9.3060904@elitedev.com> <1200967933.10811.28.camel@erandi.boston.ximian.com> <3C3D5113-FA19-4133-83C6-F88D0D9BDDD1@gmail.com> <000001c85cd3$ec4ea110$c4ebe330$@com> Message-ID: <49f8fc020801220109i14f3f27chcaed75410e0c4e6@mail.gmail.com> Make sure everyone will know about the IRC meeting! On Jan 22, 2008 8:51 AM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > Hi Michael, > > We have been talking about the situation of cocoa sharp in the past few > days. The project seemed to have died, but like Dr. Frankenstain would say: > It's alive!!!! It's alive!!!! We are back on track and waiting for Geoff > (Norton) to post his new bindings for ObjC v2. Here is a quote of what he > said: > > "I'll try to get something in SVN by end of week; then perhaps we can > organize an IRC meeting for all interested parties to hash things out." > > Which means that the best thing to do is to wait until he commits the new > code and meet on IRC at some point. There are a number of developers that > are going to help, trust me this is very exciting, the group has made a > great improvement since last Friday, you should read the list archives to be > more or less uptodate. > > I hope this helps, > > Manuel > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com > [mailto:cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of Michael Caron > Sent: 22 January 2008 03:29 > To: Miguel de Icaza > Cc: cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com; cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com; > mono-osx at lists.ximian.com > Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop > > So I'd love to start helping, but where to start? I haven't seen much > of a 'todo' list... is it just kind of try out what's there and > what's not...? > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > From mh at elitedev.com Tue Jan 22 05:37:50 2008 From: mh at elitedev.com (marc hoffman) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:37:50 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] [Mono-osx] how can i integrate cocoa# into xcode In-Reply-To: <1200967933.10811.28.camel@erandi.boston.ximian.com> References: <47938FD9.3060904@elitedev.com> <1200967933.10811.28.camel@erandi.boston.ximian.com> Message-ID: <000001c85ce2$d694cf20$83be6d60$@com> Miguel, > > Ok ? since Mono SVN is obviously tricky to grant to wide range of > > people, how about we set up *one* "experimental/work" SVN somewhere, > > where "anyone" can get access to, with a handful of dedicated people > > reviewing those changes regularly and migrating them back to the > "real" > > Mono repo? Ideally, *any* development should be moved to the "work" > > repository, as to avid conflicts with changes happenng directly in > Mono? > > Although so far we have yet to see "a wide range of people", only a > handful of people ever contribute, so this is not a major issue. > > Of course, we require contributors to our repository to follow certain > rules, but I assume that would happen anywhere. My apologies if I ended up misrepresenting the current situation; I was merely summing up the concerns/reasons that had been voiced for the original split. If getting all interested parties set up with direct SVN access to Mono that's good news and the best solution. ;) marc hoffman RemObjects Software The Infrastructure Company http://www.remobjects.com From michael.r.caron at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 10:41:49 2008 From: michael.r.caron at gmail.com (Michael Caron) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:41:49 -0600 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop In-Reply-To: <49f8fc020801220109i14f3f27chcaed75410e0c4e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <94AC2C737DFCFE46A9D43568FC8A04A67C7F25@NHQ1ACCOEX06VS1.corporate.amfam.com> Yes, make sure there's an announcement about the IRC meeting. I'll be in NYC this weekend, so hopefully it's post Monday ;) Maybe the awakening of the Cocoa# work is because of Miguel's blogging about the OS X attention this year to the Mono team. That's surely where I picked up on what's going on. Really exciting stuff. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Brehm [mailto:ajbrehm at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:10 AM To: Manuel de la Pena Cc: Michael Caron; cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com; Andreas Farber; cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com Subject: Re: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop Make sure everyone will know about the IRC meeting! On Jan 22, 2008 8:51 AM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > Hi Michael, > > We have been talking about the situation of cocoa sharp in the past few > days. The project seemed to have died, but like Dr. Frankenstain would say: > It's alive!!!! It's alive!!!! We are back on track and waiting for Geoff > (Norton) to post his new bindings for ObjC v2. Here is a quote of what he > said: > > "I'll try to get something in SVN by end of week; then perhaps we can > organize an IRC meeting for all interested parties to hash things out." > > Which means that the best thing to do is to wait until he commits the new > code and meet on IRC at some point. There are a number of developers that > are going to help, trust me this is very exciting, the group has made a > great improvement since last Friday, you should read the list archives to be > more or less uptodate. > > I hope this helps, > > Manuel > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com > [mailto:cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of Michael Caron > Sent: 22 January 2008 03:29 > To: Miguel de Icaza > Cc: cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com; cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com; > mono-osx at lists.ximian.com > Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop > > So I'd love to start helping, but where to start? I haven't seen much > of a 'todo' list... is it just kind of try out what's there and > what's not...? > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > From ajbrehm at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 10:46:54 2008 From: ajbrehm at gmail.com (Andrew Brehm) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:46:54 +0000 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop In-Reply-To: <94AC2C737DFCFE46A9D43568FC8A04A67C7F25@NHQ1ACCOEX06VS1.corporate.amfam.com> References: <49f8fc020801220109i14f3f27chcaed75410e0c4e6@mail.gmail.com> <94AC2C737DFCFE46A9D43568FC8A04A67C7F25@NHQ1ACCOEX06VS1.corporate.amfam.com> Message-ID: <49f8fc020801220746o2145a9v8e2077419f227bb3@mail.gmail.com> No IRC access from NY? I hope it's this weekend, and then again post Monday. On Jan 22, 2008 3:41 PM, Michael Caron wrote: > Yes, make sure there's an announcement about the IRC meeting. I'll be in NYC > this weekend, so hopefully it's post Monday ;) > > Maybe the awakening of the Cocoa# work is because of Miguel's blogging about > the OS X attention this year to the Mono team. That's surely where I picked > up on what's going on. > > Really exciting stuff. > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Brehm [mailto:ajbrehm at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:10 AM > To: Manuel de la Pena > Cc: Michael Caron; cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com; Andreas Farber; > cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > > Subject: Re: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop > > > Make sure everyone will know about the IRC meeting! > > On Jan 22, 2008 8:51 AM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > > Hi Michael, > > > > We have been talking about the situation of cocoa sharp in the past few > > days. The project seemed to have died, but like Dr. Frankenstain would > say: > > It's alive!!!! It's alive!!!! We are back on track and waiting for Geoff > > (Norton) to post his new bindings for ObjC v2. Here is a quote of what he > > said: > > > > "I'll try to get something in SVN by end of week; then perhaps we can > > organize an IRC meeting for all interested parties to hash things out." > > > > Which means that the best thing to do is to wait until he commits the new > > code and meet on IRC at some point. There are a number of developers that > > are going to help, trust me this is very exciting, the group has made a > > great improvement since last Friday, you should read the list archives to > be > > more or less uptodate. > > > > I hope this helps, > > > > Manuel > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com > > [mailto:cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of Michael Caron > > Sent: 22 January 2008 03:29 > > To: Miguel de Icaza > > Cc: cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com; cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com; > > mono-osx at lists.ximian.com > > Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop > > > > So I'd love to start helping, but where to start? I haven't seen much > > of a 'todo' list... is it just kind of try out what's there and > > what's not...? > > _______________________________________________ > > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > From michael.r.caron at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 10:57:56 2008 From: michael.r.caron at gmail.com (Michael Caron) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:57:56 -0600 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop In-Reply-To: <49f8fc020801220746o2145a9v8e2077419f227bb3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <94AC2C737DFCFE46A9D43568FC8A04A67C7F27@NHQ1ACCOEX06VS1.corporate.amfam.com> No laptop with me... it's vacation, need to part with the mac for a while and relax. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Brehm [mailto:ajbrehm at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:47 AM To: michael.r.caron at gmail.com Cc: cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com; cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop No IRC access from NY? I hope it's this weekend, and then again post Monday. On Jan 22, 2008 3:41 PM, Michael Caron wrote: > Yes, make sure there's an announcement about the IRC meeting. I'll be in NYC > this weekend, so hopefully it's post Monday ;) > > Maybe the awakening of the Cocoa# work is because of Miguel's blogging about > the OS X attention this year to the Mono team. That's surely where I picked > up on what's going on. > > Really exciting stuff. > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Brehm [mailto:ajbrehm at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:10 AM > To: Manuel de la Pena > Cc: Michael Caron; cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com; Andreas Farber; > cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > > Subject: Re: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop > > > Make sure everyone will know about the IRC meeting! > > On Jan 22, 2008 8:51 AM, Manuel de la Pena wrote: > > Hi Michael, > > > > We have been talking about the situation of cocoa sharp in the past few > > days. The project seemed to have died, but like Dr. Frankenstain would > say: > > It's alive!!!! It's alive!!!! We are back on track and waiting for Geoff > > (Norton) to post his new bindings for ObjC v2. Here is a quote of what he > > said: > > > > "I'll try to get something in SVN by end of week; then perhaps we can > > organize an IRC meeting for all interested parties to hash things out." > > > > Which means that the best thing to do is to wait until he commits the new > > code and meet on IRC at some point. There are a number of developers that > > are going to help, trust me this is very exciting, the group has made a > > great improvement since last Friday, you should read the list archives to > be > > more or less uptodate. > > > > I hope this helps, > > > > Manuel > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com > > [mailto:cocoa-sharp-bounces at lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of Michael Caron > > Sent: 22 January 2008 03:29 > > To: Miguel de Icaza > > Cc: cocoa-sharp-dev at googlegroups.com; cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com; > > mono-osx at lists.ximian.com > > Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] Helping develop > > > > So I'd love to start helping, but where to start? I haven't seen much > > of a 'todo' list... is it just kind of try out what's there and > > what's not...? > > _______________________________________________ > > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > From David_Hudson at capgroup.com Tue Jan 22 11:34:08 2008 From: David_Hudson at capgroup.com (David_Hudson at capgroup.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:34:08 -0800 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] cocoa-sharp-dev Google Group has been shutdown Message-ID: Hi all, In the interest of consolidating communication for the Cocoa# project, I have shut down the cocoa-sharp-dev Google group. I posted a message directing devs to the Mono cocoa# mailing list. Has there been any decision on where to host the wiki? Are we using the Mono wiki or somewhere else? Once that is determined, I will copy over the Google wiki pages and post them on the official Cocoa# wiki page and close down the Google wiki I had set up. Note that much of the content on the the Google wiki was simply copied from the old cocoasharp.org wiki. Also, there is the CSharpXcodeplugin. Are people still interested in developing this? If so I can move it back to the Mono SVN (there is an old version of the code already in there). Thanks Dave From ajbrehm at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 12:07:25 2008 From: ajbrehm at gmail.com (Andrew Brehm) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:07:25 +0000 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] cocoa-sharp-dev Google Group has been shutdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49f8fc020801220907s607b3586p9ae73ce67bbab279@mail.gmail.com> Does thus plug-in work with Xcode 3? I find it very interesting and I think most Cocoa# users would. On Jan 22, 2008 4:34 PM, wrote: > > Hi all, > > In the interest of consolidating communication for the Cocoa# project, I > have shut down the cocoa-sharp-dev Google group. I posted a message > directing devs to the Mono cocoa# mailing list. > > Has there been any decision on where to host the wiki? Are we using the > Mono wiki or somewhere else? Once that is determined, I will copy over the > Google wiki pages and post them on the official Cocoa# wiki page and close > down the Google wiki I had set up. Note that much of the content on the the > Google wiki was simply copied from the old cocoasharp.org wiki. > > Also, there is the CSharpXcodeplugin. Are people still interested in > developing this? If so I can move it back to the Mono SVN (there is an old > version of the code already in there). > > > > > Thanks > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > From David_Hudson at capgroup.com Tue Jan 22 12:10:21 2008 From: David_Hudson at capgroup.com (David_Hudson at capgroup.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:10:21 -0800 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] cocoa-sharp-dev Google Group has been shutdown In-Reply-To: <49f8fc020801220907s607b3586p9ae73ce67bbab279@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: No. It works with Xcode 2. For me the main problem is my old iBook G3 700 will not run Leopard/Xcode3 so I don't have the ability to update the plugin. Dave "Andrew Brehm" wrote on 01/22/2008 09:07:25 AM: > Does thus plug-in work with Xcode 3? > > I find it very interesting and I think most Cocoa# users would. > > On Jan 22, 2008 4:34 PM, wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > In the interest of consolidating communication for the Cocoa# project, I > > have shut down the cocoa-sharp-dev Google group. I posted a message > > directing devs to the Mono cocoa# mailing list. > > > > Has there been any decision on where to host the wiki? Are we using the > > Mono wiki or somewhere else? Once that is determined, I will copy over the > > Google wiki pages and post them on the official Cocoa# wiki page and close > > down the Google wiki I had set up. Note that much of the content on the the > > Google wiki was simply copied from the old cocoasharp.org wiki. > > > > Also, there is the CSharpXcodeplugin. Are people still interested in > > developing this? If so I can move it back to the Mono SVN (there is an old > > version of the code already in there). > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > Dave > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp > > From dru at druware.com Tue Jan 22 12:37:19 2008 From: dru at druware.com (Andrew Satori) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:37:19 -0500 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] [Mono-osx] cocoa-sharp-dev Google Group has been shutdown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is another topic in the consolidation conversation. Most of the work that has been done is reusable in the Xcode 3 world, but will need some tweaks to make it happy. On 1/22/08 12:10 PM, "David_Hudson at capgroup.com" found the proper letters on the keyboard to produce: > No. It works with Xcode 2. For me the main problem is my old iBook G3 700 > will not run Leopard/Xcode3 so I don't have the ability to update the > plugin. > > Dave > > > "Andrew Brehm" wrote on 01/22/2008 09:07:25 AM: > >> Does thus plug-in work with Xcode 3? >> >> I find it very interesting and I think most Cocoa# users would. >> >> On Jan 22, 2008 4:34 PM, wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> In the interest of consolidating communication for the Cocoa# project, > I >>> have shut down the cocoa-sharp-dev Google group. I posted a message >>> directing devs to the Mono cocoa# mailing list. >>> >>> Has there been any decision on where to host the wiki? Are we using the >>> Mono wiki or somewhere else? Once that is determined, I will copy over > the >>> Google wiki pages and post them on the official Cocoa# wiki page and > close >>> down the Google wiki I had set up. Note that much of the content on the > the >>> Google wiki was simply copied from the old cocoasharp.org wiki. >>> >>> Also, there is the CSharpXcodeplugin. Are people still interested in >>> developing this? If so I can move it back to the Mono SVN (there is an > old >>> version of the code already in there). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> Dave >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Cocoa-sharp mailing list >>> Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com >>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp >>> > > _______________________________________________ > Mono-osx mailing list > Mono-osx at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-osx From dru at druware.com Tue Jan 22 12:36:17 2008 From: dru at druware.com (Andrew Satori) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:36:17 -0500 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] cocoa-sharp-dev Google Group has been shutdown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Now that I'm back in the office and not painting / limited access. I/Druware owns the CocoaSharp.org domain and website. We have, IMO, two options. Merge everything into the Mono Project, or keep everything under the CocoaSharp domain (or possibly both which is probably the Best of Both worlds, but I don't know that we have the resources). There is good and bad to both. With the Mono Project option, we run the risk of being 'lost in the shuffle' as it were, with the nominally Linux centered world of Mono, many of the Mac specific details could get left by the wayside. The other issue is that cocoasharp really goes beyond the scope of 'mono', so it begs the question of if it fits. With the CocoaSharp.org, you get a site that is something we can control without impact from the Mono Team, but it comes with none of theease that using Novell's web infrastructure brings, but also gives us the power to create whatever we want (it is running on a shared host / Windows / ASP.NET hosting), and though it has a wiki today, the underlying code is AWFUL, so if that's the route we want to go, I'd like to move to something a little better :-). Times have changed a bunch since I put up the original Cocoa Sharp site, the people have changed, and the Mac has become a full peer in the Mono community, with a person on staff at Novell working on it, so for people like me that had become pretty frustrated with the lack of progress and/or struggles to keep Mono and the Mac on working terms are returning to the fold. I'm good with either choice, and I'll look to the community to point a direction, but we do need to consolidate the efforts in a single direction. On 1/22/08 11:34 AM, "David_Hudson at capgroup.com" found the proper letters on the keyboard to produce: > > Hi all, > > In the interest of consolidating communication for the Cocoa# project, I > have shut down the cocoa-sharp-dev Google group. I posted a message > directing devs to the Mono cocoa# mailing list. > Are we using the > Mono wiki or somewhere else? Once that is determined, I will copy over the > Google wiki pages and post them on the official Cocoa# wiki page and close > down the Google wiki I had set up. Note that much of the content on the the > Google wiki was simply copied from the old cocoasharp.org wiki. > > Also, there is the CSharpXcodeplugin. Are people still interested in > developing this? If so I can move it back to the Mono SVN (there is an old > version of the code already in there). > > > > > Thanks > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp From ajbrehm at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 20:06:58 2008 From: ajbrehm at gmail.com (Andrew Brehm) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 01:06:58 +0000 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] cocoa-sharp-dev Google Group has been shutdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49f8fc020801221706v590e77ddvdf9f8ae689dcd4f6@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 22, 2008 5:36 PM, Andrew Satori wrote: > I/Druware owns the CocoaSharp.org domain and website. We have, IMO, two > options. Merge everything into the Mono Project, or keep everything under > the CocoaSharp domain (or possibly both which is probably the Best of Both > worlds, but I don't know that we have the resources). For what it's worth... I think that CocoaSharp should have its own site, specifically because I expect many users who are familiar with .NET but not Cocoa or the Mac OS. I do not think that the people who are looking for information on Cocoa# are the same people who are looking for general information about Mono. At the same time the connection to Mono should be made really obvious, with Mono logos and links and everything. Nobody likes a small project. > There is good and bad to both. > > With the Mono Project option, we run the risk of being 'lost in the shuffle' > as it were, with the nominally Linux centered world of Mono, many of the Mac > specific details could get left by the wayside. The other issue is that > cocoasharp really goes beyond the scope of 'mono', so it begs the question > of if it fits. I think the focus should be on Mac users and present Mono and CocoaSharp as complimentary projects. It is probably easier to convince Mac users/developers to use .NET and CocoaSharp than it is to convince .NET (or Windows) developers to use CocoaSharp and port to a platform they probably think should be covered by Winforms. Does that make sense? Mono and CocoaSharp should be seen as one from Windows and as two from Mac OS. > With the CocoaSharp.org, you get a site that is something we can control > without impact from the Mono Team, but it comes with none of theease that > using Novell's web infrastructure brings, but also gives us the power to > create whatever we want (it is running on a shared host / Windows / ASP.NET > hosting), and though it has a wiki today, the underlying code is AWFUL, so > if that's the route we want to go, I'd like to move to something a little > better :-). You might want to talk to Manuel de la Pena about the site. He was really interested in the idea of reworking it. I myself am planning to write a lot of tutorials with lots of screenshots, covering installation and use of everything involved. So if there is a site, I would love to upload lots of material! > I'm good with either choice, and I'll look to the community to point a > direction, but we do need to consolidate the efforts in a single direction. Ok, here is, in short, what I think should be done: 1. There should be a Mono-independent site for CocoaSharp, i.e. www.cocoasharp.org. 2. Talk to Manuel de la Pena about specifics for the site. 3. Talk to Novell and put obvious Mono logos and links on the site. 4. Give me a way to submit documentation. Regards, Andrew. From mandel at themacaque.com Tue Jan 22 20:22:59 2008 From: mandel at themacaque.com (Manuel de la Pena) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:22:59 +0100 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] [Mono-osx] cocoa-sharp-dev Google Group has been shutdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000701c85d5e$7fdcb9a0$7f962ce0$@com> Hi Andrew, I have to say that I agree with you, I don't really care if we are going to use or not the Novell resources, but if we do so we have to be careful and make sure that the project does not get diluted in the mono project. I believe that we should try and make a difference between the mono for Mac OS X development and what we want to achieve.. It is clear that both projects are very tight together and that if we do our work correctly they could even merge, but this should not be neither a goal or an initial idea. I think that we should have some kind of manifesto that states what the project wants to achieve and how, in other word a nice text explaining or goals clearly and that can be understand by anyone no matter their background. Deciding which people (from my point of view the most experienced ones from the last attempt/team) are going to direct the team should be our priority right now. That way we could start organizing resources and performing some design decisions. We cannot do anything until we get the new bindings for object v2 besides getting the team up. Manuel (2 am at Spain.... going to bed, the dodgy tv adverts have already started!!!!) -----Original Message----- From: mono-osx-bounces at lists.ximian.com [mailto:mono-osx-bounces at lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Satori Sent: 22 January 2008 18:36 To: David_Hudson at capgroup.com; cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com; mono-osx at lists.ximian.com Subject: Re: [Mono-osx] [Cocoa-sharp] cocoa-sharp-dev Google Group has been shutdown Now that I'm back in the office and not painting / limited access. I/Druware owns the CocoaSharp.org domain and website. We have, IMO, two options. Merge everything into the Mono Project, or keep everything under the CocoaSharp domain (or possibly both which is probably the Best of Both worlds, but I don't know that we have the resources). There is good and bad to both. With the Mono Project option, we run the risk of being 'lost in the shuffle' as it were, with the nominally Linux centered world of Mono, many of the Mac specific details could get left by the wayside. The other issue is that cocoasharp really goes beyond the scope of 'mono', so it begs the question of if it fits. With the CocoaSharp.org, you get a site that is something we can control without impact from the Mono Team, but it comes with none of theease that using Novell's web infrastructure brings, but also gives us the power to create whatever we want (it is running on a shared host / Windows / ASP.NET hosting), and though it has a wiki today, the underlying code is AWFUL, so if that's the route we want to go, I'd like to move to something a little better :-). Times have changed a bunch since I put up the original Cocoa Sharp site, the people have changed, and the Mac has become a full peer in the Mono community, with a person on staff at Novell working on it, so for people like me that had become pretty frustrated with the lack of progress and/or struggles to keep Mono and the Mac on working terms are returning to the fold. I'm good with either choice, and I'll look to the community to point a direction, but we do need to consolidate the efforts in a single direction. On 1/22/08 11:34 AM, "David_Hudson at capgroup.com" found the proper letters on the keyboard to produce: > > Hi all, > > In the interest of consolidating communication for the Cocoa# project, I > have shut down the cocoa-sharp-dev Google group. I posted a message > directing devs to the Mono cocoa# mailing list. > Are we using the > Mono wiki or somewhere else? Once that is determined, I will copy over the > Google wiki pages and post them on the official Cocoa# wiki page and close > down the Google wiki I had set up. Note that much of the content on the the > Google wiki was simply copied from the old cocoasharp.org wiki. > > Also, there is the CSharpXcodeplugin. Are people still interested in > developing this? If so I can move it back to the Mono SVN (there is an old > version of the code already in there). > > > > > Thanks > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > Cocoa-sharp mailing list > Cocoa-sharp at lists.ximian.com > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-sharp _______________________________________________ Mono-osx mailing list Mono-osx at lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-osx From dru at druware.com Tue Jan 22 22:37:29 2008 From: dru at druware.com (Andrew Satori) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:37:29 -0500 Subject: [Cocoa-sharp] [Mono-osx] cocoa-sharp-dev Google Group has been shutdown In-Reply-To: <000701c85d5e$7fdcb9a0$7f962ce0$@com> Message-ID: Well, I'm good with this, but I think we really want to hear Geoff's opinion before any decisions are made. As for the website, I think we can make something work for what you want and need. Manuel, if you have some ideas on the look and feel shoot we can round table it. I'm generally on IRC during the day (GMT -5) and can generally arrange to be online at any time if you want to hash some of this out. The current CocoaSharp content and site has been slowly being redone, as the existing Wiki has really gotten outdated fast, so at this point, I'd say, start getting your ideas together and we'll move forward. Dru On 1/22/08 8:22 PM, "Manuel de la Pena" found the proper letters on the keyboard to produce: > Hi Andrew, > > I have to say that I agree with you, I don't really care if we are going to > use or not the Novell resources, but if we do so we have to be careful and > make sure that the project does not get diluted in the mono project. > > I believe that we should try and make a difference between the mono for Mac > OS X development and what we want to achieve.. It is clear that both > projects are very tight together and that if we do our work correctly they > could even merge, but this should not be neither a goal or an initial idea. > I think that we should have some kind of manifesto that states what the > project wants to achieve and how, in other word a nice text explaining or > goals clearly and that can be understand by anyone no matter their > background. > > Deciding which people (from my point of view the most experienced ones from > the last attempt/team) are going to direct the team should be our priority > right now. That way we could